Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Spanish term or phrase:
guayabera
English translation:
flag-waving populist
Added to glossary by
philgoddard
Oct 18, 2021 09:16
2 yrs ago
38 viewers *
Spanish term
Spain
guayaberas
Spanish to English
Other
General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
Politics
CUBA. "El obsceno desequilibrio de la inversión estatal no es un error de política económica, es el resultado de un país sin democracia, vampirizado por una oligarquía de guayaberas y charreteras militares"
We all know what the guayabera is, literally: a shirt typically worn in the Caribbean. But here it is being used to refer to a class of people in Cuban society. The connotation is negative. Basically, they're corrupt, powerful people; crooks, schemers, swindlers, etc. But I am not sure of the nuance conveyed by "guayaberas" here.
We all know what the guayabera is, literally: a shirt typically worn in the Caribbean. But here it is being used to refer to a class of people in Cuban society. The connotation is negative. Basically, they're corrupt, powerful people; crooks, schemers, swindlers, etc. But I am not sure of the nuance conveyed by "guayaberas" here.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 -2 | flag-waving populist |
philgoddard
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| 4 -1 | stuffed shirt |
matt robinson
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| 4 -1 | Corrupted bureaucrats/politicians (in this context) |
Toni Castano
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| 4 -2 | guayabera shirt wearers |
Francois Boye
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Change log
Oct 20, 2021 05:38: philgoddard changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/593612">Justin Peterson's</a> old entry - "guayaberas"" to ""flag-waving populist""
Proposed translations
-2
3 hrs
philgoddard
United States
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123
Spanish term (edited):
guayabera
Selected
flag-waving populist
See Helena's helpful reference.
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Note added at 1 day 5 hrs (2021-10-19 14:39:06 GMT)
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... which says "This is often interpreted as a sign of the wearer's affiliation with populist political positions". A populist is a politician appealing to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups, like Donald Trump. It doesn't mean corrupt, though he was also corrupt.
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Note added at 1 day 5 hrs (2021-10-19 14:48:08 GMT)
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They wear the shirt because it gives them popular appeal, like Trump wearing a baseball cap.
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Note added at 1 day 5 hrs (2021-10-19 14:39:06 GMT)
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... which says "This is often interpreted as a sign of the wearer's affiliation with populist political positions". A populist is a politician appealing to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups, like Donald Trump. It doesn't mean corrupt, though he was also corrupt.
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Note added at 1 day 5 hrs (2021-10-19 14:48:08 GMT)
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They wear the shirt because it gives them popular appeal, like Trump wearing a baseball cap.
Note from asker:
| It makes sense, AND it has a source to substantiate it. Thanks. |
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Francois Boye
: The guayabera is a summer shirt in the Americas.
5 hrs
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Yes, we already know that. You've arrived late in the discussion, and haven't had the courtesy to read it. How can a country be governed by a shirt?
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| disagree |
Toni Castano
: From my reference: "país sin democracia, vampirizado por una oligarquía de guayaberas y charreteras militares.". No, it certainly does not speak about corruption.
1 day 1 hr
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You seem to be agreeing with me - it doesn't mean corrupt. Your "reference" isn't a reference, it's the text that Justin posted.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "This is the answer that both a) makes sense and b) has a convincing source to back it up"
-1
13 mins
stuffed shirt
It seems to be used in this way. See example of usage in link.
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Note added at 5 hrs (2021-10-18 14:45:58 GMT)
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I still think it works. They may well be conservative and pompous. They are drawing on tradition in order to give themselves an air of respectability.
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Note added at 5 hrs (2021-10-18 14:45:58 GMT)
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I still think it works. They may well be conservative and pompous. They are drawing on tradition in order to give themselves an air of respectability.
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
philgoddard
: No, if anything it's the opposite. A stuffed shirt is a conservative, pompous person.
3 hrs
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-2
9 hrs
Francois Boye
United States
United States
Specializes in field
United States
An economic geek with social skills
Native in: French 
Works in: English to French, French to English, Spanish to English, and 1 more.
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:
28
guayabera shirt wearers
The guayabera is a summer shirt.in the Americas. It isn't a revolutionary symbol.
Guayabera
The guayabera also known as Camisa de Yucatán is a men's summer shirt, worn outside the trousers, distinguished by two vertical rows of closely sewn pleats running the length of the front and back of the shirt. Typically made of linen, silk, or cotton, and appropriate for hot or humid weather, guayaberas are popular in Cuba, the Caribbean, Mexico, Central America, South America, Southeast Asia, the south of Spain and Portugal.
Guayabera
The guayabera also known as Camisa de Yucatán is a men's summer shirt, worn outside the trousers, distinguished by two vertical rows of closely sewn pleats running the length of the front and back of the shirt. Typically made of linen, silk, or cotton, and appropriate for hot or humid weather, guayaberas are popular in Cuba, the Caribbean, Mexico, Central America, South America, Southeast Asia, the south of Spain and Portugal.
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
philgoddard
: This is meaningless, and misses the point. I'm guessing you haven't bothered to read Helena's reference, and you clearly know more than Wikipedia in saying it's not a revolutionary symbol.
1 hr
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http://www.historymiami.org/wp-content/themes/historymiami/a...
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| disagree |
Toni Castano
: No François, not "guayabera shirt wearers" in a general sense, as you say, but just the political elite of the island, D...-C.... and the rest of his senior bureaucrats. Yes, they also wear "guayaberas".
11 hrs
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Everybody wears a guayabera in summer in the Americas. Why would Cuba be different? Is a guayabera expensive? You haven't answer these questions.
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-1
13 hrs
Toni Castano
Spain
Spain
Native in Spanish
Spain
PER ASPERA AD ASTRA
Native in: Spanish
Works in: German to Spanish, Spanish to German, English to Spanish, and 5 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
8
Corrupted bureaucrats/politicians (in this context)
The word “guayabera” is used in this context in a figurative sense to symbolize the civil leadership of the so-called “neocastrismo”, the Cuban political elite. The “guayabera” symbol represents therefore the civil side of power within the “neocastrismo”, whereas the “charreteras militares” depicts the strong arm of the Cuban armed forces, the second key element of the new “neocastrismo”. Both elements have, always according to the author of the text below, something in common, they are both corrupt and self-defeating to Cuba and the Cubans.
It is obviously indispensable to read the article in full to understand the context, otherwise the risk of misunderstanding the meaning of “guayaberas y charreteras militares” is high.
In summary:
Oligarquía de guayaberas y charreteras militares
Oligarchy of corrupted bureaucrats/politicians and leaders of the armed forces
https://diariodecuba.com/economia/1634382960_34842.html
La lógica detrás de la ilógica inversión estatal en Cuba
El castrismo importa autos para rentar al turismo, pero espera a ver si alguien le dona ambulancias.
(…)
La respuesta simple es: porque pueden. Aunque parezca tautológico, es vital resaltar que en Cuba una oligarquía militar-burocrática decide absolutamente todo sin rendir cuentas a nadie, con lo que no es redundante, sino importante, destacar que en medio de la mayor crisis sanitaria de la historia —con miles de cubanos muriendo en lúgubres hospitales sin medicinas básicas— siguió el Gobierno castrista invirtiendo en turismo al mismo ritmo frenético que años anteriores. Ese dato, por sí mismo, define lo que es una dictadura.
(…)
Hoy, en Cuba, los hombres que controlan las armas son también los que manejan el dinero, pero tienen que convivir con la cúpula burocrática que domina la maquinaria interna de distribución, poder y legitimidad política que provee estabilidad al régimen. Esa argamasa es el neocastrismo.
Mirando los números de la inversión nacional, parece que han acordado dividirse a la mitad "lo que caiga": XXXX XXXXX y los burócratas usan su mitad para sostener, tanto tiempo como sea posible, la tragedia de país que les han dado a administrar; mientras, XXXXX-XXXXXXXX (general jefe de GAESA y "asesor" de XXXX-XXXXX, además de miembro de la familia Castro) usa la otra mitad del botín para levantar tantos hoteles como pueda, por si un día se desploma el tinglado tener un buen pastel para repartir entre allegados, colaboradores y cómplices.
El obsceno desequilibrio de la inversión estatal no es un error de política económica, es el resultado de un país sin democracia, vampirizado por una oligarquía de guayaberas y charreteras militares.
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Note added at 1 day 6 hrs (2021-10-19 16:00:25 GMT) Post-grading
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Justin, thanks for your feedback. No problem at all, you are free to choose the answer that you consider it fits your context the best. Regards, Toni.
It is obviously indispensable to read the article in full to understand the context, otherwise the risk of misunderstanding the meaning of “guayaberas y charreteras militares” is high.
In summary:
Oligarquía de guayaberas y charreteras militares
Oligarchy of corrupted bureaucrats/politicians and leaders of the armed forces
https://diariodecuba.com/economia/1634382960_34842.html
La lógica detrás de la ilógica inversión estatal en Cuba
El castrismo importa autos para rentar al turismo, pero espera a ver si alguien le dona ambulancias.
(…)
La respuesta simple es: porque pueden. Aunque parezca tautológico, es vital resaltar que en Cuba una oligarquía militar-burocrática decide absolutamente todo sin rendir cuentas a nadie, con lo que no es redundante, sino importante, destacar que en medio de la mayor crisis sanitaria de la historia —con miles de cubanos muriendo en lúgubres hospitales sin medicinas básicas— siguió el Gobierno castrista invirtiendo en turismo al mismo ritmo frenético que años anteriores. Ese dato, por sí mismo, define lo que es una dictadura.
(…)
Hoy, en Cuba, los hombres que controlan las armas son también los que manejan el dinero, pero tienen que convivir con la cúpula burocrática que domina la maquinaria interna de distribución, poder y legitimidad política que provee estabilidad al régimen. Esa argamasa es el neocastrismo.
Mirando los números de la inversión nacional, parece que han acordado dividirse a la mitad "lo que caiga": XXXX XXXXX y los burócratas usan su mitad para sostener, tanto tiempo como sea posible, la tragedia de país que les han dado a administrar; mientras, XXXXX-XXXXXXXX (general jefe de GAESA y "asesor" de XXXX-XXXXX, además de miembro de la familia Castro) usa la otra mitad del botín para levantar tantos hoteles como pueda, por si un día se desploma el tinglado tener un buen pastel para repartir entre allegados, colaboradores y cómplices.
El obsceno desequilibrio de la inversión estatal no es un error de política económica, es el resultado de un país sin democracia, vampirizado por una oligarquía de guayaberas y charreteras militares.
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Note added at 1 day 6 hrs (2021-10-19 16:00:25 GMT) Post-grading
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Justin, thanks for your feedback. No problem at all, you are free to choose the answer that you consider it fits your context the best. Regards, Toni.
Note from asker:
| Excellent, Toni. Well reasoned and thorough. |
| Well-written and logical case made, but, curiously, Helena's reference, flagged by Phil, to the "populist political positions" is the only solid source we have to pinpoint the connotation here. |
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Francois Boye
: http://www.historymiami.org/wp-content/themes/historymiami/a...
2 hrs
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I see your initial neutral has finally become a "disagree". Same as you, I shall post a link too (second chance for you to read): https://diariodecuba.com/economia/1634382960_34842.html
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| agree |
Helena Chavarria
15 hrs
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Thanks Helena. This is just crazy, what I see here in KudoZ. Sometimes I don´t know what to think, really. So sad...
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| disagree |
philgoddard
: I'm surprised to see Helena agreeing with this, since her own reference says: "This is often interpreted as a sign of the wearer's affiliation with populist political positions". It doesn't say anything about corruption.
15 hrs
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Your disagree comes a bit too late. I can´t take it seriously.
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Reference comments
18 mins
Helena Chavarria
Spain
Spain
Native in English
Specializes in field
Spain
Striving for excellence
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: Spanish to English, Catalan to English
Related KudoZ points
:
55
Reference:
Guayaberas have been worn extensively by a number of Latin American political leaders, including Andrés Manuel López Obrador, Cesar Chavez, Carlos Prío Socarrás, and Fidel Castro. This is often interpreted as a sign of the wearer's affiliation with populist political positions. Michael Manley, populist Jamaican prime minister, specifically advocated for the guayabera as an anti-colonialist mode of dress, and conversely the shirt was later banned in Parliament by the conservative Jamaica Labour Party. Similarly, Mexican left-wing populist Luis Echeverría advocated for its use in Mexico in part to symbolize rejection of European and American-style business suits.
U.S. presidents, including Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and Barack Obama, have worn the shirts as a sign of solidarity when visiting the Cuban community in Miami and when attending Latin American summits. Visiting politicians are sometimes given the shirts by Cuban American or Latin American political leaders.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guayabera
The obscene imbalance of state investment is not an economic policy error, it is the result of a country without democracy, vampirized by an oligarchy of guayaberas and military epaulettes.
https://today.in-24.com/News/465275.html
I search for 'obliarchy of guayaberas' (which is probably what I would use) and came across this.
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Note added at 28 mins (2021-10-18 09:45:36 GMT)
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Sorry, 'searched'.
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Note added at 5 hrs (2021-10-18 15:07:27 GMT)
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I don't see why it would be a laughable mistake, but each to their own.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2021-10-18 15:24:14 GMT)
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I know the author isn't referring to a garment but I can think of lots of garments that make me think of the type of people who wear them: tutus, trilby hats (I watched an old film on TV last night and it reminded me of my father in the 60s, who used to wear a trilby), kimonos, sarees, different uniforms, etc.
U.S. presidents, including Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and Barack Obama, have worn the shirts as a sign of solidarity when visiting the Cuban community in Miami and when attending Latin American summits. Visiting politicians are sometimes given the shirts by Cuban American or Latin American political leaders.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guayabera
The obscene imbalance of state investment is not an economic policy error, it is the result of a country without democracy, vampirized by an oligarchy of guayaberas and military epaulettes.
https://today.in-24.com/News/465275.html
I search for 'obliarchy of guayaberas' (which is probably what I would use) and came across this.
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Note added at 28 mins (2021-10-18 09:45:36 GMT)
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Sorry, 'searched'.
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Note added at 5 hrs (2021-10-18 15:07:27 GMT)
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I don't see why it would be a laughable mistake, but each to their own.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2021-10-18 15:24:14 GMT)
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I know the author isn't referring to a garment but I can think of lots of garments that make me think of the type of people who wear them: tutus, trilby hats (I watched an old film on TV last night and it reminded me of my father in the 60s, who used to wear a trilby), kimonos, sarees, different uniforms, etc.
Note from asker:
| Oh dear, no. It is not referring to guayaberas, the shirts, but rather using the term to denote a type of person. Leaving it "guayaberas" would be a laughable mistake |
| This is, apparently, an automatic translation of the same article that I am translating today! The translation is literal! It's laughable (sorry, did not mean to offend) because the author is not referring to a garment, but rather a social type! |
| Francois: we all know that the guayabera is a summer shirt. You clearly did not read the original post, or the answers. |
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
María Perales
2 hrs
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Thank you, Maria :-)
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| agree |
Hernan Casasbuenas
: Helena, I agree with you. I think guayabera should not be translated. It is the name and reference to a special type of shirt.
2 hrs
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Thank you, Hernan :-)
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| agree |
philgoddard
: Thanks for this, but you can't leave it untranslated - no one will understand. And your second reference is a terrible translation.
3 hrs
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I posted because I thought it might be useful :-)
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| neutral |
Francois Boye
: The guayabera is a summer shirt in the Americas//http://www.historymiami.org/wp-content/themes/historymiami/a...
9 hrs
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Yes, I know, though I'm not sure whether they know in the UK.
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| agree |
Toni Castano
: Lucky woman! The only one here who did not receive a "disagree". Yes, you are right: "I know the author isn't referring to a garment". It is not the garment itself, but the symbolism associated with it.
21 hrs
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'Lucky woman', that's exactly what I thought, though it's still early days. Toni, thanks for thinking that my reference is useful.
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Discussion
I also feel at least one person has been confused by Justin's reference to corruption in his question. Yes, many of them are corrupt, but that's not why they're wearing the shirt. It's because they're populists.
Spanish to English
Food & Drink
After opening it, I then saw Food & Drink / Politics.
I personally think that your query does not have anything to do with "Food & Drink" or Tourism, but clearly with the other field, Politics. If you had posted it in that field, you might have received more answers and opinions, who knows?