| صفحات الموضوع: [1 2] > | Poll: Do you check if the client's word count is correct before you start the job? ناشر الموضوع: ProZ.com Staff
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This forum topic is for the discussion of the poll question "Do you check if the client's word count is correct before you start the job?".
This poll was originally submitted by Els Hoefman. View the poll results »
| | | | | I have learnt to do so | Nov 11, 2010 |
And it saves arguments later on.
If a text turns out to be twice as long as indicated, I may have problems with a deadline I have agreed to.
And if I have accepted a PO indicating a lower number of words, I do not have a contract to translate more words, or be paid for them...
Further problems arise if reaching the word count is not a simple matter of pressing "Count words" - if the text is in another format the number of words is not always easy to calcul... See more And it saves arguments later on.
If a text turns out to be twice as long as indicated, I may have problems with a deadline I have agreed to.
And if I have accepted a PO indicating a lower number of words, I do not have a contract to translate more words, or be paid for them...
Further problems arise if reaching the word count is not a simple matter of pressing "Count words" - if the text is in another format the number of words is not always easy to calculate and the format itself makes translation slower (imo - there are plenty of other threads about ppt format charging and etc).
I do not use any software which would lead me into discussions about fuzzy matches etc. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Word count check | Nov 11, 2010 |
Yes, I do check if the client's word count is correct to avoid misunderstandings later on. The word count system does not take into account the research made for odd or very specialized words or denominations. Time involved for searching the correct translation of official bodies or new created words should be evaluated extra.
| | | | Rolf Kern 
سويسرا
Local time: 01:02
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احياء لذكرى | The problem is... | Nov 11, 2010 |
..that the various counting methods/programs give different word counts.
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Rolf Kern
سويسرا
Local time: 01:02
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احياء لذكرى
Marie-Claire Beckx wrote:
Time involved for searching the correct translation of official bodies or new created words should be evaluated extra.
When working with agencies, this efford is included in the word price, unfortunately but logically.
[Bearbeitet am 2010-11-11 08:36 GMT]
| | | | | Some clients are prone to cheat us | Nov 11, 2010 |
If we didn't check it correctly, some clients may cheat us easily. If a client takes much time to pay or bargain too much or any of his/her activities found selfish, we must check the word count, payments etc. Recently, a client gave me a word count 0f only 10000 while it was 11800 in real.
| | | | | Word count is not straightforward... even in Word files | Nov 11, 2010 |
I agree with all the comments above.
Moreover, even Word can be deceiving: many clients do not mark the box "Count footnotes" in the word count option and some texts are full of them. These footnotes are often really complicated: references to books, laws, theories... The text inside certain boxes is not counted either by Word. When I see boxes in the original text, I cut the contents and make the wordcount again in order to see if they are included or not. If they are not, I paste... See more I agree with all the comments above.
Moreover, even Word can be deceiving: many clients do not mark the box "Count footnotes" in the word count option and some texts are full of them. These footnotes are often really complicated: references to books, laws, theories... The text inside certain boxes is not counted either by Word. When I see boxes in the original text, I cut the contents and make the wordcount again in order to see if they are included or not. If they are not, I paste them in a different file, count them and inform the client before starting the project.
Carmen ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I check that all the files are there too | Nov 11, 2010 |
I always check. There is no point in arguing over slight variations in word counts - Trados and Word may not agree entirely, but the difference is usually under ten words.
I check the repeats and fuzzy matches, though. These are a necessary evil, but if the repeats are in a reliable TM for known end clients, then I simply proof them in the new context and do not charge full price again.
Another reason is to make sure the job sent IS as agreed, especially if it includes... See more I always check. There is no point in arguing over slight variations in word counts - Trados and Word may not agree entirely, but the difference is usually under ten words.
I check the repeats and fuzzy matches, though. These are a necessary evil, but if the repeats are in a reliable TM for known end clients, then I simply proof them in the new context and do not charge full price again.
Another reason is to make sure the job sent IS as agreed, especially if it includes more than one file. Are they all there, and have they all been included in the word count? I have never had clients deliberately trying to cheat, but I have found discrepancies because the PM has forgotten one of the files... the best are only human!
I admit, I once ´lost´ a couple of files myself, too. Never again!
I do a lot of small jobs, and an extra 1000 words can change a deadline from absolutely reasonable to completely impossible. ▲ Collapse
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Mary Worby
المملكة المتحدة
Local time: 00:02
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| Not as such ... | Nov 11, 2010 |
Often, I'm not told a word count. In a lot of cases, the customer will send me a file and ask when I can translate it, and I'll invoice based on the target text. In other cases, if we're looking at a PDF, for example, we'll work out a rough estimate of the words together.
But, if the customer sends me a job and says it is x words, then yes, I will double-check. Either simply by looking at the word count in Word or by running my own analysis in Trados.
| | | | Interlangue (X)
أنغولا
Local time: 01:02
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I miss a "yes, often" option: I do not do it "always" (I know my customers) but more than "sometimes".
Also, some clients pay by target word/line... I check and tell them when sending in the translation - isn't this the only way to do it for "image" pdf-files?
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
فرنسا
Local time: 01:02
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| Checking... yes. For *my* peace of mind. | Nov 11, 2010 |
It doesn't really matter if different tools give different results, but it gives a rough estimate of the volume to be actually expected. And sorry, "repetitions" and "fuzzy matches" - just yikes.
[Edited at 2010-11-11 10:41 GMT]
| | | | | ALWAYS!!!!!!! | Nov 11, 2010 |
Especially when dealing with new clients. I am always wary of some intricate counting system involving 'fuzzy matches' and 'repetitions' and uncounted table contents and the likes. If I don't get paid for these, does that mean I don't have to make sure the words are appropriate within the sentence and I don't have to type them and format them? Table contents? You don't want them translated, I take it?
The latest infuriating issue seems to be that payment is being calculated using t... See more Especially when dealing with new clients. I am always wary of some intricate counting system involving 'fuzzy matches' and 'repetitions' and uncounted table contents and the likes. If I don't get paid for these, does that mean I don't have to make sure the words are appropriate within the sentence and I don't have to type them and format them? Table contents? You don't want them translated, I take it?
The latest infuriating issue seems to be that payment is being calculated using the source text, instead of the target text. Using Dutch, this works out as a little give or take on different projects, but it seems to signify the lack of trust, crafty approach and exertion of power by clients. ▲ Collapse
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John Fossey
كندا
Local time: 19:02
عضو (2008)
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And I always price on source text and always state what the price is going to be before beginning. Its just not worth surprises after the fact. If the client is expecting something different, we'll discuss it before starting.
A quick acknowledging email, with a price, saves a lot of headaches later.
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Carmen Cuervo-Arango wrote:
I agree with all the comments above.
Moreover, even Word can be deceiving: many clients do not mark the box "Count footnotes" in the word count option and some texts are full of them. These footnotes are often really complicated: references to books, laws, theories... The text inside certain boxes is not counted either by Word. When I see boxes in the original text, I cut the contents and make the wordcount again in order to see if they are included or not. If they are not, I paste them in a different file, count them and inform the client before starting the project.
Carmen
Well, I bought a software that does count everything: AnyCount, since then I waste less time and i am quite satisfied with it, especially with the PDF files
| | | | | Yes, always, but which word count do you go with? | Nov 11, 2010 |
Word tends to undercount Italian, in my experience, as it treats an unbroken character string with an apostrophe in it as one word, which of course is fine for English possessives ("the man's dog" is 3 words, all fine so far), but not with Italian articles (e.g. "l'uomo" is 2 words - although miscounted by Word as 1).
For those working in languages with this problem, do you use CAT analyses to get around it, or if the client disagrees, whose word count wins ... See more Word tends to undercount Italian, in my experience, as it treats an unbroken character string with an apostrophe in it as one word, which of course is fine for English possessives ("the man's dog" is 3 words, all fine so far), but not with Italian articles (e.g. "l'uomo" is 2 words - although miscounted by Word as 1).
For those working in languages with this problem, do you use CAT analyses to get around it, or if the client disagrees, whose word count wins ? ▲ Collapse
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