Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

neat dilution

English answer:

neat is undiluted, 1:1 is ambiguous, used for both 50% dilution and undiluted

Added to glossary by Jörgen Slet
May 3, 2006 10:11
18 yrs ago
22 viewers *
English term

neat dilution

English Science Science (general)
What exactly should it mean ?
I understand "neat" means "undiluted", but I saw "neat dilution" used for a 1:1 dilution. Is the latter correct usage ?
Responses
4 +8 yes

Discussion

Tony M May 4, 2006:
Couldn't agree more!
Jörgen Slet (asker) May 4, 2006:
Tony: All chemistry pros I've asked interpret 1:1 dilution as a 50% dilution.
Definitely a minefield of ambiguity, if it's also used to mean undiluted material.
Tony M May 3, 2006:
Jorgen: if that ref. I've posted below is to be believed, it looks as if it is simply your understanding of 1:1 that is mistaken...
Jörgen Slet (asker) May 3, 2006:
Excuse me, but 1:1 dilution is definitely not "zero dilution" It's a 50% dilution, 1 part of source material, 1 part of diluent. Hence my confusion.

Responses

+8
5 mins
Selected

yes

...although it appears clumsy, it is at least unambiguous:

"dilution: neat" might be a more logical way of expressing it in certain contexts.

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Note added at 4 hrs (2006-05-03 14:29:17 GMT)
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Oh, I SEE what you mean now!

In fact, I've always understood 1:1 dilution as being in fact 100% of the substance, but I see the logic in what you're saying, and of course it is uttterly contradictory!

I think many people must believe like me that 1:1 means 'undiluted', and NOT a 50% solution!

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Note added at 4 hrs (2006-05-03 14:58:36 GMT)
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Now here's something interesting I found on a French site:

Dilution (voir également la commande de Probabilié)

Des dilutions sont préparées dans un flacon de mesure. Un volume témoin défini est présenté dans le flacon et composé à la marque avec de l'eau distillée.



Table de dilution

Table de dilution
F = 2
F = 4
F = 5
F = 10 Volume témoin présenté dans le ballon de mesure de 50 ml
25 ml
12,5 ml
10 ml
5 ml

Facteur de dilution
F = 2
F = 4
F = 5
F = 10 Proportions
échantillon de 1 part de + dist 1 part. l'eau
échantillon de 1 part de + dist 3 parts. l'eau
échantillon de 1 part de + dist 4 parts. l'eau
échantillon de 1 part de + dist 9 parts. l'eau


F = volume final (flacon de mesure) / volume témoin.

OBSERVATION : Le ratio de dilution 1:1 est souvent
incorrectement pris pour être le ratio d'un part d'échantillon + 1 part d'eau distillée. Il se rapporte à l'échantillon non dilué.


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Note added at 4 hrs (2006-05-03 14:59:56 GMT)
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Here's the URL for that:

http://www.hach-lange.fr/shop/action_q/services;analytical/l...

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Note added at 4 hrs (2006-05-03 15:08:19 GMT)
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Here are a couple more, and I think I'm beginning to see a pattern here. It's easy to see that 1/1 means undiluted, as would be very common in French at any rate. Hence why it seems as if there may be confusion between 1/1 and 1:1.

CHAPTER

concentration for undiluted (1/1) and 1/4 runs. ... Dilution 1/1. 0. 400000. 800000. 1200000. 1600000. Reactor 1. Reactor 2. Reactor 3. Dilution 1/2 ...

etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/ etd-0413102-142601/unrestricted/CHAPTER4.pdf


Notes:

Undiluted. 1:2. 1:4. 1:8. 1:16. Reactive. Reactive. Reactive. nonreactive. nonreactive. 2. (Und.) 1:1. 1:2. 1:4. 1:8. 1:16. Report ...

www.safetycatheters.com/ds/ technicalCenter/inserts/0212013(0604).pdf

But the sites that support this view seem to be pretty thin on the ground, more seem to view 1:1 as being 50% like you do, Jorgen.

What a potential minefield of ambiguity in something as crucial as this!



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Note added at 1 day4 hrs (2006-05-04 14:57:29 GMT)
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Here's an interesting photography link where they discuss this very question:

http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=002ZFy&tag=
Peer comment(s):

agree Roddy Stegemann : Yes, on the one hand, it tells you that the solution can be diluted; and on the other, it tells you to what degree -- namely, zero. It is neither clumsy, nor ambiguous.
6 mins
Thanks, Hamo! My view entirely
agree Isodynamia
8 mins
Efharisto, Constantina!
agree Christine Andersen : linguistically illogical, but hey, this is English :-D
9 mins
Thanks, Christine! Quite :-D
agree William [Bill] Gray : Seems to be in use OK in this sense, though I agree rather to the illogicality. (Maybe arose from "with zero dilution" and "neat" replaced "zero"?
14 mins
Thanks, Bill! Or maybe someone just thought 'neat' sounded too much like gin...? ;-)
agree Elisabete Cunha
14 mins
Thanks, Elisabete!
agree Jack Doughty : but not with Hamo; it does seem clumsy and ambiguous to me.
18 mins
Thanks, Jack! I'm inclined to agree that it is on the clumsy side, but feel that is in fact AVOIDS any possible ambiguity; might be more appropriate for use in text where the figures might stand out too much...
agree Raging Dreamer : I'm with Bill's comment.
33 mins
Thanks, R/D!
agree CHEN-Ling
5 hrs
Thanks, Minoer!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you"
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