Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
neat dilution
English answer:
neat is undiluted, 1:1 is ambiguous, used for both 50% dilution and undiluted
Added to glossary by
Jörgen Slet
May 3, 2006 10:11
18 yrs ago
22 viewers *
English term
Responses
+8
5 mins
Selected
yes
...although it appears clumsy, it is at least unambiguous:
"dilution: neat" might be a more logical way of expressing it in certain contexts.
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Note added at 4 hrs (2006-05-03 14:29:17 GMT)
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Oh, I SEE what you mean now!
In fact, I've always understood 1:1 dilution as being in fact 100% of the substance, but I see the logic in what you're saying, and of course it is uttterly contradictory!
I think many people must believe like me that 1:1 means 'undiluted', and NOT a 50% solution!
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Note added at 4 hrs (2006-05-03 14:58:36 GMT)
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Now here's something interesting I found on a French site:
Dilution (voir également la commande de Probabilié)
Des dilutions sont préparées dans un flacon de mesure. Un volume témoin défini est présenté dans le flacon et composé à la marque avec de l'eau distillée.
Table de dilution
Table de dilution
F = 2
F = 4
F = 5
F = 10 Volume témoin présenté dans le ballon de mesure de 50 ml
25 ml
12,5 ml
10 ml
5 ml
Facteur de dilution
F = 2
F = 4
F = 5
F = 10 Proportions
échantillon de 1 part de + dist 1 part. l'eau
échantillon de 1 part de + dist 3 parts. l'eau
échantillon de 1 part de + dist 4 parts. l'eau
échantillon de 1 part de + dist 9 parts. l'eau
F = volume final (flacon de mesure) / volume témoin.
OBSERVATION : Le ratio de dilution 1:1 est souvent
incorrectement pris pour être le ratio d'un part d'échantillon + 1 part d'eau distillée. Il se rapporte à l'échantillon non dilué.
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Note added at 4 hrs (2006-05-03 14:59:56 GMT)
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Here's the URL for that:
http://www.hach-lange.fr/shop/action_q/services;analytical/l...
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Note added at 4 hrs (2006-05-03 15:08:19 GMT)
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Here are a couple more, and I think I'm beginning to see a pattern here. It's easy to see that 1/1 means undiluted, as would be very common in French at any rate. Hence why it seems as if there may be confusion between 1/1 and 1:1.
CHAPTER
concentration for undiluted (1/1) and 1/4 runs. ... Dilution 1/1. 0. 400000. 800000. 1200000. 1600000. Reactor 1. Reactor 2. Reactor 3. Dilution 1/2 ...
etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/ etd-0413102-142601/unrestricted/CHAPTER4.pdf
Notes:
Undiluted. 1:2. 1:4. 1:8. 1:16. Reactive. Reactive. Reactive. nonreactive. nonreactive. 2. (Und.) 1:1. 1:2. 1:4. 1:8. 1:16. Report ...
www.safetycatheters.com/ds/ technicalCenter/inserts/0212013(0604).pdf
But the sites that support this view seem to be pretty thin on the ground, more seem to view 1:1 as being 50% like you do, Jorgen.
What a potential minefield of ambiguity in something as crucial as this!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day4 hrs (2006-05-04 14:57:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Here's an interesting photography link where they discuss this very question:
http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=002ZFy&tag=
"dilution: neat" might be a more logical way of expressing it in certain contexts.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2006-05-03 14:29:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Oh, I SEE what you mean now!
In fact, I've always understood 1:1 dilution as being in fact 100% of the substance, but I see the logic in what you're saying, and of course it is uttterly contradictory!
I think many people must believe like me that 1:1 means 'undiluted', and NOT a 50% solution!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2006-05-03 14:58:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Now here's something interesting I found on a French site:
Dilution (voir également la commande de Probabilié)
Des dilutions sont préparées dans un flacon de mesure. Un volume témoin défini est présenté dans le flacon et composé à la marque avec de l'eau distillée.
Table de dilution
Table de dilution
F = 2
F = 4
F = 5
F = 10 Volume témoin présenté dans le ballon de mesure de 50 ml
25 ml
12,5 ml
10 ml
5 ml
Facteur de dilution
F = 2
F = 4
F = 5
F = 10 Proportions
échantillon de 1 part de + dist 1 part. l'eau
échantillon de 1 part de + dist 3 parts. l'eau
échantillon de 1 part de + dist 4 parts. l'eau
échantillon de 1 part de + dist 9 parts. l'eau
F = volume final (flacon de mesure) / volume témoin.
OBSERVATION : Le ratio de dilution 1:1 est souvent
incorrectement pris pour être le ratio d'un part d'échantillon + 1 part d'eau distillée. Il se rapporte à l'échantillon non dilué.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2006-05-03 14:59:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Here's the URL for that:
http://www.hach-lange.fr/shop/action_q/services;analytical/l...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2006-05-03 15:08:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Here are a couple more, and I think I'm beginning to see a pattern here. It's easy to see that 1/1 means undiluted, as would be very common in French at any rate. Hence why it seems as if there may be confusion between 1/1 and 1:1.
CHAPTER
concentration for undiluted (1/1) and 1/4 runs. ... Dilution 1/1. 0. 400000. 800000. 1200000. 1600000. Reactor 1. Reactor 2. Reactor 3. Dilution 1/2 ...
etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/ etd-0413102-142601/unrestricted/CHAPTER4.pdf
Notes:
Undiluted. 1:2. 1:4. 1:8. 1:16. Reactive. Reactive. Reactive. nonreactive. nonreactive. 2. (Und.) 1:1. 1:2. 1:4. 1:8. 1:16. Report ...
www.safetycatheters.com/ds/ technicalCenter/inserts/0212013(0604).pdf
But the sites that support this view seem to be pretty thin on the ground, more seem to view 1:1 as being 50% like you do, Jorgen.
What a potential minefield of ambiguity in something as crucial as this!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day4 hrs (2006-05-04 14:57:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Here's an interesting photography link where they discuss this very question:
http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=002ZFy&tag=
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Roddy Stegemann
: Yes, on the one hand, it tells you that the solution can be diluted; and on the other, it tells you to what degree -- namely, zero. It is neither clumsy, nor ambiguous.
6 mins
|
Thanks, Hamo! My view entirely
|
|
agree |
Isodynamia
8 mins
|
Efharisto, Constantina!
|
|
agree |
Christine Andersen
: linguistically illogical, but hey, this is English :-D
9 mins
|
Thanks, Christine! Quite :-D
|
|
agree |
William [Bill] Gray
: Seems to be in use OK in this sense, though I agree rather to the illogicality. (Maybe arose from "with zero dilution" and "neat" replaced "zero"?
14 mins
|
Thanks, Bill! Or maybe someone just thought 'neat' sounded too much like gin...? ;-)
|
|
agree |
Elisabete Cunha
14 mins
|
Thanks, Elisabete!
|
|
agree |
Jack Doughty
: but not with Hamo; it does seem clumsy and ambiguous to me.
18 mins
|
Thanks, Jack! I'm inclined to agree that it is on the clumsy side, but feel that is in fact AVOIDS any possible ambiguity; might be more appropriate for use in text where the figures might stand out too much...
|
|
agree |
Raging Dreamer
: I'm with Bill's comment.
33 mins
|
Thanks, R/D!
|
|
agree |
CHEN-Ling
5 hrs
|
Thanks, Minoer!
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you"
Discussion
Definitely a minefield of ambiguity, if it's also used to mean undiluted material.