Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
"a historic" vs. "an historic"
English answer:
'a historic' for modern English
Added to glossary by
LJC (X)
Jul 25, 2005 07:22
18 yrs ago
12 viewers *
English term
"a historic" vs. "an historic"
English
Other
Linguistics
In recent years, I've seen "an historic" used more and more often, usually in more highbrow texts. Personally, I don't see any grammatical justification for this - after all, the H is not silent - or any other good reason for doing so. Having spent a few minutes browsing the internet, I have come to the conclusion that both are acceptable, but I still can't understand why.
Can anyone shed any light on this?
Many thanks
Ian
Can anyone shed any light on this?
Many thanks
Ian
Responses
Responses
+9
40 mins
Selected
'a historic' for modern English
Personally speaking, 'an historic' and 'an hotel' have always grated on my ears and I've always thought it was a snobbish way of speaking (a bit like 'orf' instead of 'off'). However, I consulted Oxford, which says:
"There is still some divergence of opinion over the form of the indefinite article to use preceding certain words beginning with h- when the first syllable is unstressed: 'a historical document' or 'an historical document'; 'a hotel' or 'an hotel'. The form depends on whether the initial h is sounded or not: an was common in the 18th and 19th centuries, because the intitial h was commonly not pronounced for these words. In standard modern English the norm is for the h to be pronounced in words like hotel and historical, and therefore, the indefinite article a is used; however, the older form, with the silent h and the indefinite article an, is still encountered, especially among older speakers.
"There is still some divergence of opinion over the form of the indefinite article to use preceding certain words beginning with h- when the first syllable is unstressed: 'a historical document' or 'an historical document'; 'a hotel' or 'an hotel'. The form depends on whether the initial h is sounded or not: an was common in the 18th and 19th centuries, because the intitial h was commonly not pronounced for these words. In standard modern English the norm is for the h to be pronounced in words like hotel and historical, and therefore, the indefinite article a is used; however, the older form, with the silent h and the indefinite article an, is still encountered, especially among older speakers.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks for all this input ... now I can happily continue saying "a historic" like I always have :-)"
+3
5 mins
Both
Interesting question that I'm now hooked on too! Below is from the link:
You should use “an” before a word beginning with an “H” only if the “H” is not pronounced: “an honest effort”; it’s properly “a historic event” though many sophisticated speakers somehow prefer the sound of “an historic,” so that version is not likely to get you into any real trouble.
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Note added at 8 mins (2005-07-25 07:30:17 GMT)
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http://www.betterwritingskills.com/tip-w005.html
You probably know the grammar rule that says you use an before vowel sounds (e.g. an accident, an item, an hour) and a otherwise; e.g. a book, a report, a hotel.
Following this rule, we would say \"a historic\", not \"an historic\".
Words of three or more syllables that start with h are treated differently by some speakers, though. For example, which of these pairs of sentences sounds correct to you?
It is a historic occasion.
It is an historic occasion.
We can\'t agree on a hypothesis.
We can\'t agree on an hypothesis.
A quick bit of Googling reveals that the phrase \"a historic\" is used on 1.43 million pages (68%), and \"an historic\" on 675,000 pages (32%).
Which form you use seems to be little more than a personal preference. Both usages are sufficiently common to be considered correct in modern English.
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Note added at 8 mins (2005-07-25 07:30:25 GMT)
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http://www.betterwritingskills.com/tip-w005.html
You probably know the grammar rule that says you use an before vowel sounds (e.g. an accident, an item, an hour) and a otherwise; e.g. a book, a report, a hotel.
Following this rule, we would say \"a historic\", not \"an historic\".
Words of three or more syllables that start with h are treated differently by some speakers, though. For example, which of these pairs of sentences sounds correct to you?
It is a historic occasion.
It is an historic occasion.
We can\'t agree on a hypothesis.
We can\'t agree on an hypothesis.
A quick bit of Googling reveals that the phrase \"a historic\" is used on 1.43 million pages (68%), and \"an historic\" on 675,000 pages (32%).
Which form you use seems to be little more than a personal preference. Both usages are sufficiently common to be considered correct in modern English.
You should use “an” before a word beginning with an “H” only if the “H” is not pronounced: “an honest effort”; it’s properly “a historic event” though many sophisticated speakers somehow prefer the sound of “an historic,” so that version is not likely to get you into any real trouble.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 mins (2005-07-25 07:30:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.betterwritingskills.com/tip-w005.html
You probably know the grammar rule that says you use an before vowel sounds (e.g. an accident, an item, an hour) and a otherwise; e.g. a book, a report, a hotel.
Following this rule, we would say \"a historic\", not \"an historic\".
Words of three or more syllables that start with h are treated differently by some speakers, though. For example, which of these pairs of sentences sounds correct to you?
It is a historic occasion.
It is an historic occasion.
We can\'t agree on a hypothesis.
We can\'t agree on an hypothesis.
A quick bit of Googling reveals that the phrase \"a historic\" is used on 1.43 million pages (68%), and \"an historic\" on 675,000 pages (32%).
Which form you use seems to be little more than a personal preference. Both usages are sufficiently common to be considered correct in modern English.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 mins (2005-07-25 07:30:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.betterwritingskills.com/tip-w005.html
You probably know the grammar rule that says you use an before vowel sounds (e.g. an accident, an item, an hour) and a otherwise; e.g. a book, a report, a hotel.
Following this rule, we would say \"a historic\", not \"an historic\".
Words of three or more syllables that start with h are treated differently by some speakers, though. For example, which of these pairs of sentences sounds correct to you?
It is a historic occasion.
It is an historic occasion.
We can\'t agree on a hypothesis.
We can\'t agree on an hypothesis.
A quick bit of Googling reveals that the phrase \"a historic\" is used on 1.43 million pages (68%), and \"an historic\" on 675,000 pages (32%).
Which form you use seems to be little more than a personal preference. Both usages are sufficiently common to be considered correct in modern English.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
David Knowles
: The point is surely that it used to be "an istoric", but the h started to be pronounced (cf herb in UK and US)
10 mins
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David, thank you. I think I'm going to stick with "a historic." Although, Ian's questions does give one food for thought.
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agree |
Robert Donahue (X)
4 hrs
|
Thank you, Robert!
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agree |
Will Matter
: "a historic is correct", "an historic" is not.
8 hrs
|
Thank you, willmatter. I much prefer "a,"...lots of evidence out there that both are ok.
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15 mins
both although "a historic" is "technically" correct
Hi Ian, you said you've been googling this, so you may have already come across this link, but I found it one of the most interesting I've read on this debate (and there is a surprising amount of stuff on the Net written about this, isn't there?!). And it seems that everyone comes down to the same answer, that grammatically speaking "a historic" is correct, but that more and more speakers prefer the sound of "an historic". Language is evolving and so this will no doubt eventually be grammatically correct as well - an accepted exception to the rule :-)
http://www.sharbean.ca/main/template.php?EntryID=719
I'm a bit of a word snob; and, a fanatic about proper grammar. So, when Chris approached me about me writing "a historic" instead of "an historic" in the Mission to Mars post and claimed I was using bad grammar, I had to prove that French / English grammar guy wrong.
As it turns out - after a bit of research I discovered that we were both right...sort of. This is one of those language anomalies that we English speakers hear so much about but never really identify because we speak the language.
My thinking was that you placed 'n' between two vowels as in 'an apple'; but, because 'h' isn't a vowel, there is no need for the 'n' in 'a historic'.
But, this is not entirely correct.
It appears that what you use is dependent on the word and the consistency of the 'h'. With a strong 'h' like you see in 'hotel' it would be 'a hotel'; but, with a soft 'h' like in 'herb' you would use 'an herb'.
This is the direct result of a mixing of British English, where the 'h' is seldom pronounced, and the evolution of American English where the is no such thing as a soft 'h'. Though in talking to a few Brits about the 'h' their preference is to also move away from using 'an' in front of the 'h'.
Of course the argument doesn't stop here, because if you give people something to discuss they will discuss it.
Spencer Howson from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) asked his listeners which they preferred to use - 'an historic' or 'a historic'. The result: 62.5% preferred 'an historic' while 37.5% preferred 'a historic'.
Whether you believe the Aussies on this is up to you - but Spencer took this matter one step further and spoke with the linguistic professor Roly Sussex. Roly says which version you use is dependent on where the word is stressed. For example the word 'history' would use 'a' and the word 'historic' could go either way depending on the speaker's preference. The current trend is leaning towards using 'a'.
Well, all this confuses me more than it helps. I'll stick to the 'vowel rule' in this case.
© 1992 - 2005 sharbean.ca. All Rights Reserved
http://www.sharbean.ca/main/template.php?EntryID=719
I'm a bit of a word snob; and, a fanatic about proper grammar. So, when Chris approached me about me writing "a historic" instead of "an historic" in the Mission to Mars post and claimed I was using bad grammar, I had to prove that French / English grammar guy wrong.
As it turns out - after a bit of research I discovered that we were both right...sort of. This is one of those language anomalies that we English speakers hear so much about but never really identify because we speak the language.
My thinking was that you placed 'n' between two vowels as in 'an apple'; but, because 'h' isn't a vowel, there is no need for the 'n' in 'a historic'.
But, this is not entirely correct.
It appears that what you use is dependent on the word and the consistency of the 'h'. With a strong 'h' like you see in 'hotel' it would be 'a hotel'; but, with a soft 'h' like in 'herb' you would use 'an herb'.
This is the direct result of a mixing of British English, where the 'h' is seldom pronounced, and the evolution of American English where the is no such thing as a soft 'h'. Though in talking to a few Brits about the 'h' their preference is to also move away from using 'an' in front of the 'h'.
Of course the argument doesn't stop here, because if you give people something to discuss they will discuss it.
Spencer Howson from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) asked his listeners which they preferred to use - 'an historic' or 'a historic'. The result: 62.5% preferred 'an historic' while 37.5% preferred 'a historic'.
Whether you believe the Aussies on this is up to you - but Spencer took this matter one step further and spoke with the linguistic professor Roly Sussex. Roly says which version you use is dependent on where the word is stressed. For example the word 'history' would use 'a' and the word 'historic' could go either way depending on the speaker's preference. The current trend is leaning towards using 'a'.
Well, all this confuses me more than it helps. I'll stick to the 'vowel rule' in this case.
© 1992 - 2005 sharbean.ca. All Rights Reserved
-2
55 mins
Two very good arguements for both
But I'll stick with "an" even when the H isn't aspirated. It's more a matter of continuity of form.
An Hilarious Half Hour
An History
An historic
Poor pronunciation is probably at the base of the use of "A" in UK English, but it shouldn't stop the rule from being applied. In my book(s) "A" would simply be wrong.
An Hilarious Half Hour
An History
An historic
Poor pronunciation is probably at the base of the use of "A" in UK English, but it shouldn't stop the rule from being applied. In my book(s) "A" would simply be wrong.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Tony M
: Although I support the 'an hotel' variants, I do'nt think one can be so dogmatic as to say this is a 'rule', or that either is 'wrong'
1 hr
|
It's not Dogma, it's Strunk and White - and correct English
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disagree |
Will Matter
: What, exactly, do you mean by "learn the language"? It's my native tongue & i've been speaking it since before your parents met. Unlike you I both know & understand the rule being used here.
7 hrs
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Learn the language. Nothing in English is simple.
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neutral |
Roddy Stegemann
: Many non-native speakers at a loss for proper pronunciation of many English nouns would prefer an orthographical rule to simplify things. Unfortunately, what commands in this situation is sound, not sight. See Bavington's note to Dusty.
16 hrs
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I agree, and there is one. Many just find it convenient to ignore it.
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disagree |
John Bowden
: Wrong - and somebody who can't spell "arguments" should be a bit less dogmatic...// If you really say "an history", I'd 'ave a word with 'Enry 'Iggins if I were you!
2 days 7 hrs
|
BIOYA Call it tired. ANyway, prove I'm wrong AH
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+3
1 hr
a historic
What appears to be missing in Kurt Porter and Mara Bertelsen's response is the way in which the article "a" is pronounced when it appears before the word historic. Rather than being pronounced as the u- and a-sounds in cut, what, but, the article is pronounced like the stressed vowels in the phrase "stay away". This same approach to understanding the problem can explain why the word herb is often preceded by the article "an" rather than its "a" counterpart. In effect, the rule of when to write which article is not, and could never be orthographically based; rather, it is how one pronounces the noun that follows that is determinant.
I never pronounce the h-sound in the word herb and always write the article "an" before it. In contrast, I always pronounce the h-sound in historic and write the article "a" before it.
Consider the word university by way of further example. Like the h-sound in historic, the u-sound in university is a semi-vowel that is half consonant and half vowel. I never write the orthographically determined phrase "an university"; rather, I write "a university" and pronounce the a-sound as in the two stressed vowels in the phrase "stay away".
Surely, I hope my explanation has removed Mara's confusion. In the end I find it difficult to find agreement with Kurt. Of course, some people may prefer the phrase "an historic" over "a historic", because the latter could be easily confused with the word "ahistoric", and this may have been your point all along.
No politics is the politics of the status quo.
Of course, the problem does not end here, because I pronounce the articles in the phrases "a hole in the wall" and "the whole thing" with the unstressed, mid-vowel found in the words cut, what, but, rather than with the stressed a- and e-sounds found in the words may and see. I suspect this has to do with the fact that the o-sound in hole and whole is that of a high-back vowel. Once again, pronunciation takes a back seat to orthography.
With this I hope that I have left no holes in the whole of it.
I never pronounce the h-sound in the word herb and always write the article "an" before it. In contrast, I always pronounce the h-sound in historic and write the article "a" before it.
Consider the word university by way of further example. Like the h-sound in historic, the u-sound in university is a semi-vowel that is half consonant and half vowel. I never write the orthographically determined phrase "an university"; rather, I write "a university" and pronounce the a-sound as in the two stressed vowels in the phrase "stay away".
Surely, I hope my explanation has removed Mara's confusion. In the end I find it difficult to find agreement with Kurt. Of course, some people may prefer the phrase "an historic" over "a historic", because the latter could be easily confused with the word "ahistoric", and this may have been your point all along.
No politics is the politics of the status quo.
Of course, the problem does not end here, because I pronounce the articles in the phrases "a hole in the wall" and "the whole thing" with the unstressed, mid-vowel found in the words cut, what, but, rather than with the stressed a- and e-sounds found in the words may and see. I suspect this has to do with the fact that the o-sound in hole and whole is that of a high-back vowel. Once again, pronunciation takes a back seat to orthography.
With this I hope that I have left no holes in the whole of it.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Tony M
: I agree at least in part with what you're saying. if the artcile 'a' is pronounced as 'ay', then that satisifies the desire for euphony and obviates the need to put 'an'...
1 hr
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Bravo! Thanks!
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agree |
silfilla
5 hrs
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Thanks. We are of the same mind.
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agree |
Mario Marcolin
: Indeed, I think the pronounciation of the article is the key in this issue and the article is a matter of personal choice ( or accent)
8 hrs
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If you are saying that the choice of article is determined by the pronunciation of the noun that follows and the pronunciation of the latter is a matter of choice, then we, too, are of like mind. Thanks!
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neutral |
John Bowden
: If I've understood you correctly, you're saying the "a" in "a historic day" etc isn't a schwa but a full vowel - well, I for one pronounce it as a schwa (BE)// Again, the difference may be US/BE - in BE the article is never a stresssed vowel
3 days 7 hrs
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This suggests that you never pronounce the article "a" as a stressed vowel, except when you refer to it as the article. In short, you simply ignore the rule. Many members of my family also ignore the rule. Thank you for your input.
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+3
2 hrs
English term (edited):
'a' or 'an' historic
an historical perspective... NFG
I just wanted to add that back in the 50s and still 60s, people who considered themselves 'educated' speakers in the UK would say 'an historic' and even sometimes 'an hotel' (and I've even known a few say 'an unique...'). Nowadays, it sounds like a slightly quaint middle-class pretension, though I have to say that i still prefer it.
There is clearly a AE / BE difference here, as no-one I know in the UK would dream of saying 'an herb garden'
I see the following as being fiarly clear-cut in everyday oral usage [UK English]
a house
a history book
a herb garden
a holiday
a hypothesis
a humorous anecdote
a hopeless case
a university
an hour
an hilarious moment
an uneventful week
but I see the following as being much more debatable
an historic
an hotel
I think there is a trend to move towards what follows logical orthographic 'rules', and to be less based on 'what it sounds like when you pronounce it'. Look at the way French prefers euphony over logic. My parents always used to say (referring to many words) "If you pronounce it correctly, it will help you remember the correct spelling"
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Note added at 4 hrs 42 mins (2005-07-25 12:04:24 GMT)
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I should have said \"By contrast, look at the way French...\"
There is clearly a AE / BE difference here, as no-one I know in the UK would dream of saying 'an herb garden'
I see the following as being fiarly clear-cut in everyday oral usage [UK English]
a house
a history book
a herb garden
a holiday
a hypothesis
a humorous anecdote
a hopeless case
a university
an hour
an hilarious moment
an uneventful week
but I see the following as being much more debatable
an historic
an hotel
I think there is a trend to move towards what follows logical orthographic 'rules', and to be less based on 'what it sounds like when you pronounce it'. Look at the way French prefers euphony over logic. My parents always used to say (referring to many words) "If you pronounce it correctly, it will help you remember the correct spelling"
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs 42 mins (2005-07-25 12:04:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I should have said \"By contrast, look at the way French...\"
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Vicky Papaprodromou
2 hrs
|
Thanks, Vicky!
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agree |
Charlie Bavington
: Especially with the "herb garden" :-) I think we *tend* to go with "it depends how you say it" - for example, I'd write "a UFO" (pronounced as separate letters) but "an RFC", even tho' both break the rule about 'words' that start with a vowel....
2 hrs
|
Thanks, Charlie! Good examples!
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agree |
Will Matter
7 days
|
Thanks, W/M!
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+2
10 hrs
Both (not for grading)
The endless debates to establish "rules" to ensnare the elusive and self inventing thing called the English language falters yet again.
Have a look and Dusty's answer:
"an hour" is normal and common, therefore it's correct. Just try saying "a hour"- ridiculous.
Now tr<y saying "an hilarious"- just as ridiculous.
Modern doesn't even come into it- it's what feels right IMVHO.
Have a look and Dusty's answer:
"an hour" is normal and common, therefore it's correct. Just try saying "a hour"- ridiculous.
Now tr<y saying "an hilarious"- just as ridiculous.
Modern doesn't even come into it- it's what feels right IMVHO.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
John Bowden
: Yes, some people seem determined to use invented "rules" to justify their own preferences, and to beat other people around the head with! (sorry for ending the sentence with a prepopsition...)
4 days
|
Yes....the Irish invented the shillelagh for this (sorry 1an!).
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agree |
Tony M
: I entirely agree with your point about spurious rules for comofrt reasons; I have to disagree, tho', about 'an hilarious...' --- it's something I say quite naturally, all the time, without even stopping to think about it...
7 days
|
Like I say, if it feels right........
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