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What's your opinion on machine translation and quality?
Thread poster: Daniela Zambrini
Christine Andersen
Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 17:48
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
Precisely - pre-editing is the only way to get it to work May 29, 2014

Tom in London wrote:

Apart from the inane smiles and the repulsive, glowing up-beatness of the participants in the video, it's obvious they had rehearsed their (extremely dull) conversation in advance and that they were both reading their responses from a script.

Microsoft’s ‘Star Trek’ voice translator:

http://gu.com/p/3ptnk


-- But in some contexts, where the input is highly predictable, you CAN use it!

FAQs about various things, where you KNOW people regularly run into the same problems, are apparently an area where answers can be prepared and pre-edited in various languages.
The expert in solving the problem need not understand all the languages consumers use to ask questions. But again, the input is likely to be limited, and if it is all expletives, I am sure the machine can be programmed to ask soothingly for more precise details of the problem!


Strictly controlled language was useful in library indexing - where catalogues were getting too big for manual searching, you could categorise each item at the input stage. (This is all very low tech, Dewey Decimal or Universal Decimal classification principles taken a few steps further.)
Then even 1970s computers, pre-Windows, pre-monitors, could find specified keywords, link them up, and print you a list of books or documents to go and collect off the shelves. They were only as good as the input, but could compete with humans.

Now, with far more computer-power, Google has to a large extent taken over from us librarians - and it works! Any child does a quick Google search when back then we encouraged people to look in an encyclopedia or go to the reference library. Academics actually did, and people like me used to lurk about in the stacks trying to find what they wanted...

However, that is still a very long way from translation.

'English as she is spoke' and any real language is simply not logical in the same way as computers are - or it is far too complex, and the differences from one language to another are far too great for a non-intelligent machine to grasp.


 
Michelle Kusuda
Michelle Kusuda  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:48
English to Spanish
+ ...
Something to consider... May 29, 2014

The one factor most technology companies ignore is that Machine Translation (MT) will never be able to replace live translators. MT does not differentiate context, so you will always need the professional translator to make a judgement call on which translation fits the context. The same thing applies to CAT tools. While it is alright to use the same word over and over in English, it is not so in other languages, Spanish requires a more varied use of synonyms for the same word. Some translation ... See more
The one factor most technology companies ignore is that Machine Translation (MT) will never be able to replace live translators. MT does not differentiate context, so you will always need the professional translator to make a judgement call on which translation fits the context. The same thing applies to CAT tools. While it is alright to use the same word over and over in English, it is not so in other languages, Spanish requires a more varied use of synonyms for the same word. Some translation companies encourage the use of CAT tools in order to lower the pay of translators by trying to not pay for terms like “repetitions, fuzzy matches”. In my opinion, MT post-editing and CAT tools should benefit the translator and will not be widely adopted by translators until outsourcers realize that translators must be compensated not only for their linguistic ability but also for their judgement call. Attorneys do not charge less to represent a client just because they had had similar cases in the past. Why should that be allowed or even expected in the translation profession?Collapse


 
Jorge Herran
Jorge Herran  Identity Verified
Peru
Local time: 11:48
Member (2014)
English to Spanish
In favor, but with reserves May 29, 2014

Hello, actually I am in favor of MT (I use a CAT tool called FLuency 2013 that allows me an option to do it so if I wish), of course I check all the MT text, the cool thing about Fluency is that it allows me to have statistics regarding my job. I noticed that when I started using Fluency my productivity increased in 400%. And my translation's quality did not suffered. The bottom line is that from my experience, using it usually makes me think less, and when I think less I am able to speed-up my ... See more
Hello, actually I am in favor of MT (I use a CAT tool called FLuency 2013 that allows me an option to do it so if I wish), of course I check all the MT text, the cool thing about Fluency is that it allows me to have statistics regarding my job. I noticed that when I started using Fluency my productivity increased in 400%. And my translation's quality did not suffered. The bottom line is that from my experience, using it usually makes me think less, and when I think less I am able to speed-up my translations, and concentrate in the terms that need more work, I am much more relaxed and happy when I use MT (but IF I am able to check the source at the same time).

Of course, there are certain fields of knowledge in which I never use it, but I do it in most cases.

Kind regards
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Kirti Vashee
Kirti Vashee  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:48
The 50 Variants of MT which all vary in output quality Jun 2, 2014

http://kv-emptypages.blogspot.com/2014/05/monolithic-mt-or-50-shades-of-grey.html?showComment=1401688448918#c6613573129052963461

This describes why it does not make sense to just say MT -- it depends on what kind of MT and the average overall quality of the MT output

I think you will
... See more
http://kv-emptypages.blogspot.com/2014/05/monolithic-mt-or-50-shades-of-grey.html?showComment=1401688448918#c6613573129052963461

This describes why it does not make sense to just say MT -- it depends on what kind of MT and the average overall quality of the MT output

I think you will see that the varieties of "MT" experience are going to vary by language and be much better with Spanish/English than they are with Russian or German or Hindi
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Bernhard Sulzer
Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:48
English to German
+ ...
Which MT is much better? Jun 4, 2014

Kirti Vashee wrote:

http://kv-emptypages.blogspot.com/2014/05/monolithic-mt-or-50-shades-of-grey.html?showComment=1401688448918#c6613573129052963461

This describes why it does not make sense to just say MT -- it depends on what kind of MT and the average overall quality of the MT output

I think you will see that the varieties of "MT" experience are going to vary by language and be much better with Spanish/English than they are with Russian or German or Hindi



Much better? How good are they really?
The article you linked above talks about different kinds of MT without giving any examples of how good or bad they really are, so where is the evidence?! And the article belittles all translators who think all MT is the same in the sense of its inadequacy. Those translators obviously don't know what they're talking about. Yeah, right.

There is a good reason why many translators oppose MT completely - but if you can show us some examples of how good a machine translation is - I would gladly see it.
A good MT to me means a machine that can translate relatively complex sentences CORRECTLY.

Maybe the article gets the definition of MT wrong - yes, there are many tools that help us translate texts (online dictionaries, CAT tools and TMs, speech recognition programs are just a few), but they are not what is commonly referred to as machine translation.
A machine translation to me is a translation of simple and complex sentences carried out by a machine, not a human.

If the translation were good, MT could be a great tool or it could eventually replace human translators, and only programmers of MT machines would be needed.

Also, and "if nothing else, at least MT helps reduce time spent on typing" is not an argument I can support. You need to compare what the machine translated with the original text and then you have to rearrange words and replace words and phrases which can be quite a headache and can end up being much more work than a "clean" human translation. Also, wrong sentence structure, word endings, mistakes in tense and mode can be a constant annoyance.

So show me the result of one of those super MTs,

B


 
Oleg Vigodsky
Oleg Vigodsky
Russian Federation
Local time: 19:48
English to Russian
Some examples of (ENG-RUS) MT output Jun 4, 2014

Hello, Bernhard.

You asked Kirti (above) to provide some MT results. I hope he will provide you and us some interesting MT outputs.

Let me share a link to my article called "Machine Translation as a translator's tool", where you can find several screenshots with a PROMT MT output for an English to Russian pair. I do not insist that these MT samples are best outputs or examples. I simply explain how to use MT resources t
... See more
Hello, Bernhard.

You asked Kirti (above) to provide some MT results. I hope he will provide you and us some interesting MT outputs.

Let me share a link to my article called "Machine Translation as a translator's tool", where you can find several screenshots with a PROMT MT output for an English to Russian pair. I do not insist that these MT samples are best outputs or examples. I simply explain how to use MT resources to customize this PROMT tool.

http://argonaut.spb.ru/files/MT_as_translator_tool.pdf

I fully agree with your approach: show possible MT results and explain MT features. I always try to use such approach with my collegues and possible customers.

Sorry for only Russian results.
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Michelle Kusuda
Michelle Kusuda  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:48
English to Spanish
+ ...
Better than MT - text expanders Jun 4, 2014

MT needs to be exposed for what it is... a work in progress.

Right now translators can be more efficient using text expanding programs. You can add the terms and if repeated the text expander will convert it for you. Why spend so much money on CAT tools, or even MT?

We as vendors need to make end clients (the entire world, would be better!) aware that MT sounds good, but it is not ready yet. Like I said, you can get a gist of the message with some of the MT solutio
... See more
MT needs to be exposed for what it is... a work in progress.

Right now translators can be more efficient using text expanding programs. You can add the terms and if repeated the text expander will convert it for you. Why spend so much money on CAT tools, or even MT?

We as vendors need to make end clients (the entire world, would be better!) aware that MT sounds good, but it is not ready yet. Like I said, you can get a gist of the message with some of the MT solutions but not an accurate translation of the message.

Also, translators need to inform clients/agencies that if they do not want to pay for repetitions in a text to go ahead and remove them before submission for translation. It is impossible for any professional translator to skip "repetitions" or "fuzzy matches" without ensuring it accurately reflects the original text.

When translation agencies ask translators to use MT or CAT tools, they are crossing the line and treating translators as employees without providing any benefits that employees are entitled to.
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Michelle Kusuda
Michelle Kusuda  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:48
English to Spanish
+ ...
Ever tried text expanders? Jun 4, 2014

Jorge Herran wrote:

Hello, actually I am in favor of MT (I use a CAT tool called FLuency 2013 that allows me an option to do it so if I wish), of course I check all the MT text, the cool thing about Fluency is that it allows me to have statistics regarding my job. I noticed that when I started using Fluency my productivity increased in 400%. And my translation's quality did not suffered. The bottom line is that from my experience, using it usually makes me think less, and when I think less I am able to speed-up my translations, and concentrate in the terms that need more work, I am much more relaxed and happy when I use MT (but IF I am able to check the source at the same time).

Of course, there are certain fields of knowledge in which I never use it, but I do it in most cases.

Kind regards



Text expanding is faster, cheaper, and saves you from having to waste time locking up segments.


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:48
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Flummoxed Jun 4, 2014

The thing I happen to be translating at this moment, which is very typical of the texts I do, would completely flummox any MT programme and would probably cause it to splinter into fundamental particles or data bits!

My text is a specialised critical essay on the design modes of a particular building type as it has developed over the past 100 years in response to changing aspirations and functional requirements in a society that has gone through great transformations.

... See more
The thing I happen to be translating at this moment, which is very typical of the texts I do, would completely flummox any MT programme and would probably cause it to splinter into fundamental particles or data bits!

My text is a specialised critical essay on the design modes of a particular building type as it has developed over the past 100 years in response to changing aspirations and functional requirements in a society that has gone through great transformations.

The language used is full of jargon and terminology that no MT programme would understand, and is written in a particular style known only to those who work in this field.

In 100 or 1,000 years there is no machine or any other automatic way of understanding this type of text and transforming its nuances and allusions into comprehensible (in my case) English.

Alas, these days there is a naive "nineteenth-century" belief that technology, the new religion, will eventually be able to do what we know how to do already. Why so many people are wasting so much time trying to create machines that do what human beings already know how to do, is something that intrigues me.
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Bernhard Sulzer
Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:48
English to German
+ ...
There are tools and then there is MT Jun 4, 2014

Oleg Vigodsky wrote:

Hello, Bernhard.

You asked Kirti (above) to provide some MT results. I hope he will provide you and us some interesting MT outputs.

Let me share a link to my article called "Machine Translation as a translator's tool", where you can find several screenshots with a PROMT MT output for an English to Russian pair. I do not insist that these MT samples are best outputs or examples. I simply explain how to use MT resources to customize this PROMT tool.

http://argonaut.spb.ru/files/MT_as_translator_tool.pdf

I fully agree with your approach: show possible MT results and explain MT features. I always try to use such approach with my collegues and possible customers.

Sorry for only Russian results.



Thanks for the link, Oleg. I agree if a tool helps in the translation process, it's a good thing. I haven't yet had that experience with MT as I defined it earlier in this thread.

Take care.

B


 
Miguel Carmona
Miguel Carmona  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:48
English to Spanish
Please, explain... Jun 4, 2014

Michelle Kusuda wrote:

Right now translators can be more efficient using text expanding programs. You can add the terms and if repeated the text expander will convert it for you.



1) text expanding programs:
__What are those?

2) the text expander will convert it for you:
__Convert it into what?


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:48
Member (2008)
Italian to English
They don't save time Jun 4, 2014

I've tried various text expanders but I gave up on them. They not only don't save time; extra time is required to configure them and anyway I don't necessarily always want to translate the same string of words in the same way. I repeat: why so many people are wasting so much time trying to create machines and computer tweaks that do what human beings already know how to do, is something that intrigues me.

[Edited at 2014-06-04 14:59 GMT]


 
Michelle Kusuda
Michelle Kusuda  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:48
English to Spanish
+ ...
Text expanders Jun 4, 2014

Miguel Carmona wrote:

Michelle Kusuda wrote:

Right now translators can be more efficient using text expanding programs. You can add the terms and if repeated the text expander will convert it for you.



1) text expanding programs:
__What are those?

2) the text expander will convert it for you:
__Convert it into what?



Text expanders are an add-in macro to MS Word that a lot of transcriptionists and translators use to save themselves time in having to type long sentences or long words.

For example, you can use three letters "syg" and the program will expand it to sygmoidoscopy.

You can tweek it for your language pair.... you can set so that "bread" becomes "pan" if you are working with Spanish, etc.

Here is a link to one of them:


http://www.nch.com.au/fastfox/


Hope the above helps.


 
Miguel Carmona
Miguel Carmona  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:48
English to Spanish
Like autocomplete Jun 4, 2014

Thank you Michelle.

I have known that function for a long time, but I guess I knew it by another name, maybe autocomplete or something like that.


 
Orrin Cummins
Orrin Cummins  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 01:48
Japanese to English
+ ...
Not acceptable in English, either Jun 5, 2014

Michelle Kusuda wrote:

While it is alright to use the same word over and over in English, it is not so in other languages, Spanish requires a more varied use of synonyms for the same word.


In fact, it is generally a sign of bad writing. Exceptions would be technical material for which it has been decided to use something like this to make it easier to read for non-natives.

I find myself spending a good portion of my time actually finding ways to phrase sentences in the target text to avoid using the same words too much - sometimes it's probably on par with the amount of time spent reading and understanding the source text.


 
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