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What's your opinion on machine translation and quality?
Thread poster: Daniela Zambrini
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:58
Member (2004)
English to Italian
Absolutely... Jul 10, 2014

Giles Watson wrote:

Phil Hand wrote:

Now, I don't know about romance languages. But I'm often told that they are some of the hardest pairs to work between because you have to be so careful to avoid false friends. I'd like to hear other romance language colleagues chip in to tell us if Google or any other MT system can really achieve decent results in their pairs.



It's not just a question of a few false friends. Romance languages tend to have stylistic expectations about sentence structure and the organisation of thought that contrast with English.

For example, Italian - but the comment also applies to other Romance languages - likes its sentences to look solid. Forms and notions balance or offset each other and the ideas often tend to be organised in (nested) pairs. English, in contrast, generally seeks to engage the reader's attention by imparting a sensation of movement. Readers expect sentences to flow and triplets are more common.

If you want an analogy, it's a bit like listening to a tango (2/4 time) and trying to transcribe it as a waltz (6/8 time).

You can, of course, calque the organisation of thought in the Italian but the English will plod and the translation will be far less effective than the original.

MT doesn't even address this issue, except by imposing its own tone-deaf rhythms on the target texts. If and when MT begins to hear language with a native ear (or humanity loses its ability to enjoy language's sounds), it will be time for translators to step down and let the 'puters take over.



As someone was saying somewhere (maybe even in this thread) one of the greatest dangers of MT is the bastardisation of the language... this is was post-editing does... in order to be quick and earn a decent rate, post-editors tend to get on with it, creating a bastardised version on the target language. Stylistic changes are not applied. Yes, you get something readable, but on the long run the language will lose all the nuances that make them special... it's already happening, for example, in Italian with the introduction of many English words, which are not even used correctly.

If MT is used "privately" by single translators, who are not so hard-pressed to be productive, this can be largely avoided. Again, we return to the old chestnut of increasing profits at all costs, pushed by platform vendors and big multinationals whose only interest is saving money and getting even richer. Never mind destroying your own language...

The stance against MT used for profit by most translator is not purely financial... we work with languages and we want to preserve them. We are the experts. Language is not a commodity and must be protected.


 
finnword1
finnword1
United States
Local time: 11:58
English to Finnish
+ ...
try this experiment Jul 28, 2014

Translate the following sentence yourself, whatever language you translate into. Then watch Google MT translate it (in about one millisecond). Which version is better?

This device must accept any interference received, including interference that may cause undesired operation.


 
LATrans34
LATrans34
United States
helpful sometimes Dec 8, 2014

John Fossey wrote:

There are two uses for MT:

1) To get the gist of a document in a language that you don't know. I have obtained translation work from clients who translated a document using GT, found it interesting or useful to them, and then paid for a proper translation. Let's just say that the job may not have existed if the client had no clue what the document said. But it doesn't substitute for a real translation and no one should ever go into a contract or commitment on the basis of MT.

2) I will sometimes have a MT window running off to one side as I work. It's marginally useful for suggesting turns of phrase in my target language that I might not think of, or that I might eventually think of but it's quicker for this purpose. If I get momentarily stuck and wonder what's the best way to put something, I might glance at the window and see a useful suggestion. But it can never be relied on for the meaning; it's just a sort of sophisticated dictionary which still requires understanding on the part of the user.


John Fossey,

I agree with you.I work as a civil servant in China. Sometimes I use a MT called NiuTrans Server (http://fanyi.zjyatuo.com/) to translate some documents in minority languages trying to get the gist.It is quick and most time workable. I can have a vague idea what these documents are about before translators complete the translation.

Tracy Sang


 
neilmac
neilmac
Spain
Local time: 16:58
Spanish to English
+ ...
Horses for courses Dec 10, 2014

LilianNekipelov wrote:

... Into important areas of life--like science, law, medicine, politics and art.


[quote]

You seem you to have misunderstood the main point of my post. I am saying that when used judiciously it can be useful. In fact, I used Systran years ago for legal documents and it was a useful tool. I'm not talking about blithely letting the machines do the work. Far from it. I think I can apply my modus operandi to most texts and in most subject areas, at least those I currently work in, without detriment to the quality of my final product.


 
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What's your opinion on machine translation and quality?






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